Acharya S., the New Age, and the Culture War on Christianity - Peter Myers, January 1, 2006; update January 4, 2006. My comments are shown {thus}; write to me at contact.html.
You are at http://mailstar.net/acharya.html.
Via her books and her website, Acharya S. launches the fiercest attack on Christianity that I have seen: http://www.truthbeknown.com/.
At the above link, at the entrance to her website, she quotes John Kaminski saying "Acharya S is the ranking religious philosopher of our era.", and Barbara Walker saying "Acharya S deserves to be recognized as a leading researcher and an expert in the field of comparative mythology, on a par with James Frazer or Robert Graves--indeed, superior to those forerunners in the frankness of her conclusions and the volume of her evidence."
She wrote, in an article titled An Atheist Here to Destroy:
"And yes, I am here to destroy. I am the intellectual aspect of Kali, the destroyer, of Shiva, of Zeus the thunderer, and of Jehovah the flattener of cities. But I am also a part and parcel of the Creative Life Force that permeates the cosmos, and upon the ruined foundations of dead and rotten ideologies I build anew." http://www.truthbeknown.com/atheist.htm.
I agree with her that many Christian ideas and practices were borrowed from other religions, and have put such information on my website, as well as evidence that the Jewish Bible is man-made; for this, fundamentalist Catholics bundled me with Acharya as a destroyer.
But Acharya overstates her case, claiming:
* Jesus never existed.
* Jesus was not crucified, but Krishna was (at least, according to Hindu myhtology); stories of Jesus' crucifixion were copied from stories of 15 previous crucified saviors.
She republished Kersey Graves's book The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors, and wrote a new Foreword to it: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/093281395X/qid=1136077408/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/t/103-3663918-1663034?s=books&v=glance&n=283155.
Her argument is not just that Christianity is assembled from many sources - that I agree with - but that there has been a succession of religious cults featuring crucified saviours, including Krishna, and that the crucifixion theme in Christianity is borrowed from the crucifixion themes of those earlier saviors.
Krishna being one of the 16, this claim of a religious tradition in India, in which Krishna was crucified, is central to her argument.
In late 2004, Acharya S. participated in my email list for a month or so, during our debate over her books.
It began as a debate between Israel Shamir and herself, over whether Christianity is a "Trojan Horse" for Judaism. Shamir's argument is that the attack on Christianity is being promoted by Jews (Acharya being an unwitting accomplice) and is allowing Judaism to dominate the West.
Shamir had included me as one of the recipients of his email to Acharya, and I published his statement in my email list.
Acharya, in replying to him, selected the "Reply to All" option in her browser, thereby sending that comment to me. Since it was a reply to Shamir's criticism of her, and since I had published Shamir's criticism, I felt it appropriate to also publish her reply. This was not to her disadvantage in any way.
After that, my email bulletins became the vehicle for the debate, involving many participants, including Acharya until she withdrew at the end. It took the form of a series of emails, which I have identified as (A), (B) etc. Each email comprised a number of items, being comments of various people, or extracts from Acharya's or other books. These items are numbered, in each email, (1), (2) etc. Some were off-topic, and have been excluded. Others were too lengthy, and have been shortened, noted by "...".
Each email began with a list of the items it contained; that list is omitted here except for the longer emails. Some of the emails began with a short introduction to the items, by me. Where no other author of comments is identified, one should assume it is me.
During the course of the debate, I obtained Acharya's books The Christ Conspiracy (CC) and Suns of God (SoG). She believes that they are an invincible offensive frontline in the culture war against Christianity. But by quoting them at various points of detail - passages which do not appear on her website - I demonstrated weakness in her sources, a lack of evidence, and jumping to unwarranted conclusions.
One participant in the debate, Atracus Sapien, has a Hindu background and knows Sanskrit, and showed that the claims about Krishna - of Kersey Graves and others that Acharya endorses - derive from Western theosophists and are not backed up by Hindu literature or studies. I sent the critiques (below) by Atracus to Acharya, but she did not respond to them.
Alain Danielou, an expert on Sanskrit and on the Hindu gods, is also quoted on the borrowing of mythology between religions (including Christianity), to give a different perspective to Acharya's.
Although attacking the established religions, Acharya offers no evidence to justify her own New Age creed: 'We have entered a new era, based on the astronomical precession of the equinoxes' (SoG, p. 567) and '... in this age in which "the truth will be shouted from the rooftops"' (CC, p. 416).
During the debate, Acharya referred to herself (in the signature block of an email) as Right Reverend Acharya S - International Church of Astrotheology. Is this a registered, tax-empt, religion? If not, why call it a "church"? In SoG she writes that astrotheology is "the worship of the heavens and planetary bodies" (p. 559).
One opponent wrote, 'Ahcarya is "Pope Joan" for all of the New Age atheists'.
Acharya accused Shamir of behaving in an un-gentlemanly way to her. But towards the end, she resorted to unlady-like name-calling ("you have a bug up your ass" ... "your anal nitpicking"), which showed that she had lost the debate.
One critic Mike Licona, wrote: 'Acharya means "guru" or "teacher." Her actual name is D. Murdock.'
Acharya scoffs (below) at the idea that Osiris had been a man, a king, who was later recognised as a god. Here's what Sir James Frazer wrote on the apotheosis of Osiris:
From The Golden Bough (1922), by Sir James George Frazer (1854-1941).
Ch. 38. The Myth of Osiris
http://www.bartleby.com/196/85.html
XXXVIII. The Myth of Osiris
... 3 Reigning as a king on earth, Osiris reclaimed the Egyptians from savagery, gave them laws, and taught them to worship the gods. Before his time the Egyptians had been cannibals. But Isis, the sister and wife of Osiris, discovered wheat and barley growing wild, and Osiris introduced the cultivation of these grains amongst his people, who forthwith abandoned cannibalism and took kindly to a corn diet. Moreover, Osiris is said to have been the first to gather fruit from trees, to train the vine to poles, and to tread the grapes. Eager to communicate these beneficent discoveries to all mankind, he committed the whole government of Egypt to his wife Isis, and travelled over the world, diffusing the blessings of civilisation and agriculture wherever he went. In countries where a harsh climate or niggardly soil forbade the cultivation of the vine, he taught the inhabitants to console themselves for the want of wine by brewing beer from barley. Loaded with the wealth that had been showered upon him by grateful nations, he returned to Egypt, and on account of the benefits he had conferred on mankind he was unanimously hailed and worshipped as a deity. ...
{end quote} more at postmortem-journeys.html.
And Martin Larson, whom Acharya quotes, writes in his book The Story of Christian Origins, originally published as The Religion of the Occident:
"Osiris was undoubtedly an early ruler of theirs." (p. 3).
If so, it is equally likely that Jesus was a real person, about whom an elaborate mythology was later built. The battle over him still rages 2000 years later.
My own comments within quoted text are shown within curly brackets {...}. This includes the page numbering shown in quotes from books.
(A) Overview of the Debate (B) Whether Christianity is a "Trojan Horse" for Judaism (C) "Acharya is liable to throw out the baby with the bathwater" (D) "Right Reverend Acharya S - International Church of Astrotheology" (E) Acharya says she "does not throw the baby out with the bathwater" (F) Shamir seems to be an agent for INCREASED "Judaic forces" (G) Acharya's New Age Conglomerate (H) Acharya's claim that Krishna was crucified, and Jesus wasn't (I) Why Acharya Matters (J) "Shamir has proved himself an ogre" - Acharya (J) "you have a bug up your ass" ... "your anal nitpicking" - Acharya (K) Krishna irrelevant, Acharya not "New Age" - Kaminski
(A) Overview of the Debate
Acharya's position:
{quote} "Jesus Christ" is a fictional character based on the numerous gods, goddesses and assorted heroes of the "known world" at the time of his creation. He is essentially the sun god turned into a "Jewish" man, "messiah," "christ," God on Earth, etc., in order to ensnare the ignorant Goyim into accepting the megalomaniacal claims of the Israelitish peoples. {endquote}
Israel Shamir replies:
{quote} This is exactly the view that the not-so-esoteric Judaic best-seller of the fourth century, Toledot Yeshu, tries to spread. ... It is amusing that an anti-Judaic Gnostic swallows the Jewish line hook, line and rod. If she would just think why it was written! As the Christian Church was (and is) the main enemy of Jews, they spread this idea in order to undermine people's trust in the Church. {endquote}
Israel Shamir grew up in the Soviet Union. He left in 1969, disillusioned at the Soviet intervention in Czechoslovakia in 1968. He supports the economic security and equality of the Communist-type economy, but opposes the icococlasm and the attack on religion that went with it. The diversity of opinion in his email list shows that he's no totalitarian; but neither is he a liberal. His website is http://www.israelshamir.net/.
Some of Acharya's sources are impeccable, e.g. E.A. Wallis-Budge. Others are informative, but occasionally wrong, e.g. Martin A. Larsen; this is not a major problem.
Others are Nineteenth-century books recording snippets gathered from the British Empire, but without our current standards of evidence. For example, claims about Krishna are sourced to "Bagaveda-Gita and Brahminical traditions" - but no names of texts, or quotes, or chapters or verses are provided. Acharya quite happily touts this material as evidence (SoG, p. 241).
Acharya seems to support "Positive Atheism". This is the view that the major religions are a positive evil, to be combated and eliminated if possible.
During the debate, one of Acharya's supporters praised her "take-no-prisoners, butt-kicking CONFIDENCE".
When the West was Christian, abortion and sodomy were crimes, women wanted to be mothers, children were respectful, parents and teachers had authority.
What if that regime was based on a lie - that the Bible was a revelation from God, that there was a Covenant, Old then New, which mandated those values?
This is Acharya's point, and I concur up to that point. But she goes further - she insists that the crucifixion never occurred, and is adamant that Jesus never existed. She sees Christianity as a deliberate fraud and conspiracy. Hence the subtitle of her book The Christ Conspiracy: the Greatest Story Ever Sold.
Acharya is part of a fringe group of atheistic and New Age writers who rely heavily on Nineteenth-century sources such as Godfrey Higgins (1771-1834), Gerald Massey (1828-1907), and Thomas Inman (Inman's books, ca. 1876, are usually quoted indirectly via T. W. Doane's book of 1882).
Twentieth century authors in Acharya's camp include John G. Jackson and Alvin Boyd Kuhn (1880-1963).
The push for Gay Marriage is occurring in the Post-Christian West, but not in Asia or Africa. It's a sign that the destruction of Christianity is creating a cultural and spiritual vacuum, and unleashing dangerous forces. Acharya is aligned with those forces of Cultural Revolution.
I oppose both extremes in the culture war - the Christian fundamentalist and the New Age/Atheist. In this debate, Acharya's view is presented in her own forceful words, but the weaknesses in her evidence and logic are also exposed.
There are genuine borrowings from Buddhism and other Indian religions to Christianity, as Martin A. Larsen dispassionately shows in his book The Religion of the Occident (The Story of Christian Origins), but Acharya's overstatement and loose argumentation undermine and embarrass those who would argue this case.
Christian borrowings from Egyptian theology and iconography are attested by several impeccable sources, e.g. E.A. Wallis-Budge (1857-1934), who was Curator of Egyptian Antiquities at the British Museum, and who is one of Acharya's reliable sources. Some quotes from Budge are at postmortem-journeys.html.
Another such author is S. G. F. Brandon, who traced the development and borrowing of ideas of the Judgment of the Dead in Ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia, Greco-Roman Culture, Hinduism and Buddhism: judgment.html.
Acharya has put a lot of work into her books, but by not accepting criticism given in a scholarly spirit, cheapens and devalues her own work.
(B) Whether Christianity is a "Trojan Horse" for Judaism
John Kaminski wrote, "Thanks to religion, the Spaniards could destroy the civilizations of the Aztecs and the Incas. Thanks to religion, the jews can destroy Western Civilization" - item 3.
(2) The Pagan Origins of Christianity, by Acharya S
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:25:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Acharya S <acharya_s3@yahoo.com>
If you like this pithy pontification from the Right Rev. Rick, you might also enjoy the following:
Despite its boasts and claims, Christianity is not unique, as practically all of its dogma, tenets, beliefs, myths and fables can be found in the numerous cultures that preceded it in a wide area of the world. In The Paganism in Our Christianity, Christian apologist Sir Weigall recaps the absorption of Paganism by Christianity:
From Pagan mythology Christianity had unconsciously taken over many a wonderful story and had incorporated it into the life of Jesus: from Mithraism the tale of the birth in the cave and the adoration of the shepherds; from Adonis-worship the tale of the Star in the East; from Dionysos-worship the tale of the turning water into wine; and so forth.
Meanwhile many of the old heathen gods had been taken into the Church as saints. Castor and Pollux became St. Cosmo and St. Damien; Dionysos, many of whose attributes were attached to St. John the Baptist, still holds his place as St. Denis of Paris; Diana Illythia is now St. Yllis of D'le; the Dia Victore is worshipped in the Basses Alpes as St. Victoire; and so forth. All over Christendom, pagan sacred places were perpetuated by the erection of Christian chapels or churches on the same sites; and there are hundreds of shrines dedicated to the Madonna on ground once sacred to nymphs or goddesses, while the holy wells or springs of heathendom are now the holy wells of the Church. The statutes of Jupiter and Apollo became those of St. Peter and St. Paul; and the figures of Isis were turned into those of the Virgin MaryÉ
Excerpted from Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled http://www.truthbeknown.com/sunsofgod.htm
(3) Two thoughts of Acharya, by Israel Shamir
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:51:14 +0200 From: "Israel Shamir" <shamir@home.se>
A Reply to a Gnostic
From Israel Shamir
Acharya S, an anti-Judaic anti-Christian Gnostic and the author of The Christ Conspiracy, had sent a letter (below) to an ad hoc list, presenting her 'refutation of Christianity'. The letter contains two thoughts:
1. Christianity as a Trojan Horse: Park Christianity at the gate of the nations, and out pop a bunch of "Chosen People".
... The Church is the ultimate defence against Judaic assault. Indeed, while the Church was strong the Jews were powerless; so much for your thesis of a Trojan Horse. If Jewish hatred is a proof, this proof is available in abundance. This week in Jerusalem, a Jewish believer spat on a cross carried by an Armenian Bishop. Is that the way to treat your Trojan Horse?
But it is interesting for us to understand the reasoning of Acharya. She - and her fellow-travellers - are Americans, and they are used to their Judaised Christianity. They are not aware that since the days of St Paul and St Peter, the Church and the Christian doctrine fully accepted veneration of Our Lady, this additional defence against Judaic penetration. ... This Christianity is not a Trojan Horse, but a mighty shield against Judaic domination.
2. Second thought of Acharya
"Jesus Christ" is a fictional character based on the numerous gods, goddesses and assorted heroes of the "known world" at the time of his creation. He is essentially the sun god turned into a "Jewish" man, "messiah," "Christ", etc. Despite its boasts and claims, Christianity is not unique, as practically all of its dogma, tenets, beliefs, myths and fables can be found in the numerous cultures that preceded it in a wide area of the worldÉ
Acharya would make great friends with my primary school teacher in Novosibirsk of AD 1955. She was also impressed by such comparisons. However, these similarities are rather confirming than refuting Christianity. ...
I saw in an interview (http://www.tektonics.org/print.php4) given by Acharya that she is a great believer in space invaders and in contact with UFOs. ...
----- Original Message ----- From: Acharya S Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 5:26 AM Subject: Oh, to be as honest as animals--or Marcus Ravage!
I would like to coin a new term to describe you, John: "balldacious."
I've said this before, but it bears repeating, I think. I like to describe Christianity as a Trojan Horse: Park Christianity at the gate of the nations, and out pop a bunch of "Chosen People." As far as I'm concerned, and as I think I make clear in my books, Christianity is a deliberately contrived ideology (not that religions in general aren't), designed to perpetuate the established domination (not hegemony, since "the nations" are not allies) of the Old Testament supremacists. (I hope you get my drift. I need no smearing with fallacious terms such as "anti-Semitic.")
"Jesus Christ" is a fictional character based on the numerous gods, goddesses and assorted heroes of the "known world" at the time of his creation. He is essentially the sun god turned into a "Jewish" man, "messiah," "christ," God on Earth, etc., in order to ensnare the ignorant Goyim into accepting the megalomaniacal claims of the Israelitish peoples.
In this regard, Marcus Eli Ravage, a biographer of the Rothschilds, remarked in Century magazine, 1928: Nineteen hundred years ago you were an innocent, care-free pagan race. You worshipped countless Gods and Goddesses, the spirits of the air, of the running streams and of the woodland. You took unblushing pride in the glory of your naked bodies. You carved images of your gods and of the tantalizing human figure. You delighted in the combats of the field, the arena and the battle-ground. Disporting yourselves on the hillsides and in the valleys of the great outdoors, you took to speculating on the wonder and mystery of life and laid the foundations of natural science and philosophy. Yours was a noble, sensual culture, unirked by the prickings of the social conscience or by any sentimental questionings about human equality. Who knows what great and glorious destiny might have been yours if we had left you alone.
But we did not leave you alone. We took you in hand and pulled down the beautiful and generous structure you had reared, and changed the whole course of your history. We conquered you as no empire of yours ever subjugated Africa or Asia. And we did it all without bullets, without blood or turmoil, without force of any kind. We did it solely by the irresistible might of our spirit, with ideas, with propaganda.
We made you the willing and unconscious bearers of our mission to the whole world, to the barbarous races of the world, to the countless unborn generations. Without fully understanding what we were doing to you, you became the agents at large of our racial tradition, carrying our gospel to unexplored ends of the earth. Our tribal customs have become the core of your moral code. Our tribal laws have furnished the basic groundwork of all your august constitutions and legal systems. Our legends and our folk-tales are the sacred lore which you croon to your infants. Our poets have filled your hymnals and your prayer-books. Our national history has become an indispensable part of the learning of your pastors and priests and scholars. Our Kings, our statesmen, our prophets, our warriors are your heroes. Our ancient little country is your Holy Land. Our national literature is your Holy Bible. What our people thought and taught has become inextricable woven into your very speech and tradition, until no one among you can be called educated who is not familiar with our racial heritage. Jewish artisans and Jewish fishermen are your teachers and your saints, with countless statues carved in their image and innumerable cathedrals raised to their memories. A Jewish maiden is your ideal of motherhood and womanhood. A Jewish rebel-prophet is the central figure in your religious worship. We have pulled down your idols, cast aside your racial inheritance, and substituted for them our God and our traditions. No conquest in history can even remotely compare with this clean sweep of our conquest over you. Think about it.
Acharya S http://www.truthbeknown.com
John Kaminski <skylax@comcast.net> wrote: The religion of the Aztecs and Incas was the essential cause of those civilizations' downfall, for they believed the White Gods had returned, when they were only a bunch of Spanish brigands. Worship your enemy and you are defeated, just like Whites who worship jews via Christianity. Thanks to religion, the Spaniards could destroy the civilizations of the Aztecs and the Incas. Thanks to religion, the jews can destroy Western Civilization. Both provide examples in which the Problem-Makers have been deified, with the resultant destruction of the host civilizations.
http://www.faem.com/eric/2003/d0505et.htm
Best wishes, John K.
(5) The Pagan Origins of Christianity, by Acharya S
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:53:45 +1000 From: Nadir <amar5249@bigpond.net.au>
I see that one of your main tasks is the promoting the attacks against Christianity, the Bible and everything related to it. Your real allies are not the Iskandars, the Vincents, the Nadirs or Kathies, but this new one Acharya S <acharya_s3@yahoo.com> and the John Kaminsky types.
[John Kaminski wrote, " Thanks to religion, the Spaniards could destroy the civilizations of the Aztecs and the Incas. Thanks to religion, the jews can destroy Western Civilization" - item 3.] ... {end}
REPLY (Peter M):
Let truth be the criterion.
Examination of the Jewish Bible shows that it's man-made: bible.html.
Have a look to see if the one you use has a Copyright notice in the front. A Copyright on the Word of God?
Next, examine the two accounts of Creation in Genesis 1 & 2. Note that one version says that the animals were created before the people. The other has Adam created first, then the animals, then Eve.
Next, look at the two versions of the story of Noah's Ark.
In one version, God tells Noah to take one board, one pair of each species. In the other, he tells Noah to take 7 pairs of each "clean" species, and 1 pair of each "unclean" species.
The difference between Acharya and me, is that I maintain a religious attitude, a reverence - to I know not what.
Acharya may be new to you, but I came across her work years ago. Even though it's probably largely true, I found it too bitter in its tone.
By comparison, consider what Alain Danielou writes in his book Gods of Love and Ecstasy: The Traditions of Shiva and Dionysus (Inner Traditions, Rochester, Vermont 1992) - also published under the title Shiva and Dionysus:
{p. 29} Mythology
Whether dealing with heroes, divine incarnations or gods, all mythology is founded on the personification of certain cosmological principles or particular virtues. "Together with the gods, I will tell of the birth of the elements which they personify," says Hesiod. What counts in mythology are the inherent principles and not the legends with which they are surrounded in order to make them more readily understood. It is of no importance that these legends are legion, differing from one region to another, from one visionary poet to another. We should not lose sight of the fact that such myths or legends are only there to make abstract ideas and universal realities more comprehensible.
The wicked fairy remains the wicked fairy even if we invent new fairy-tales. Heroes are attributed with certain acts which surpass reality, but which are designed to emphasize their virtues and the teachings which they personify. To attribute to Jesus of Nazareth the miracles and legends of Dionysus or Krishna does not detract from his message, but serves to make his divine nature more easily understood. To try to see only strictly historical facts is to deny his divinity and his value as an eternal symbol.
The legends surrounding a particular divine aspect in the various civilizations only differ in the indigenous names given to the heroes and gods. These wonderful tales illustrate universal cosmological or philosophic concepts by incorporating them in a local pantheon to make them more accessible and, occasionally, to mask their meaning from the uninitiated who take these legends literally. The same process is found everywhere, whether in the myths of Dionysus, Bacchus, Zagreus or the Minotaur, of Egyptian Osiris or Roman Liber. In the same way, the legends were adapted so as to include Shiva and his cult amongst the Vedic gods or in Tibetan Buddhism. Thus saints are substituted for gods in the Christian world: the life of Buddha appears in the lives of the saints under the name of Saint Joshaphat.
{p. 229} The message of Jesus is opposed to that of Moses and, later on, to that of Mohammed. It seems to have been a message of liberation and of revolt against a Judaism which had become monotheistic, dry, ritualist, puritan, pharisaeic and inhuman. In its Roman form, Christianity was at first in opposition to the official religion of the Empire, in the same way in which it was opposed to official Judaism as a State religion. We know very little of the sources of Jesus' teaching, or of his initiation, his sojourn "in the desert" towards the East. The Christian myths appear to be closely linked to those of Dionysus. Jesus, like Skanda or Dionysus, is the son of the Father, of Zeus. He has no wife. The goddess-mother alone finds her place next to him. He is surrounded by his faithful, his bhaktas, who are of the people, fishermen. His teaching is addressed to the humble and the outcast. He welcomes prostitutes and those who are persecuted. His rite is a sacrifice. It is in the Orphic tradition that the passion and resurrection of Dionysus occupy a central position. It is through Orphism that many of Dionysus' "miracles" were attributed to Jesus. Several aspects of the Orphic legend of Dionysus are to be found in the life of Jesus. The parallel between the death and resurrection of the god and of Christ is self-evident.
The myths and symbols tied to the birth of Christ, to his baptism, his following, his entry into Jerusalem on an ass, the Last Supper (banquet and sacrificial rite), his Passion, death and resurrection, the
{p. 230} dates and nature of the various feast days, his power of healing and of changing water into wine, inevitably evoke Dionysiac precedents.
It would therefore seem that Jesus' initiation was Orphic or Dionysiac and not Essenian as sometimes suggested. His message, which is an attempt to return to tolerance and to a respect for the work of the Father-Creator, was totally perverted after his death. Later Christianity is, in fact, diametrically opposed to it, with its religious imperialism, political role, wars, massacres, tortures, stakes, persecutions of heretics, and its denial of pleasure, sexuality and of all the forms of experiencing the divine joy. ...
{p. 231} Christianity thus became an instrument of conquest and world domination, just as Buddhism had been for the Indian emperors. ...
Christian missionaries, who were often sent out by atheist governments, as was the case in France - where, moreover, religious communities were outlawed under the Third Republic -, were often the most powerful tool in depersonalizing the conquered peoples and subjecting them to the conqueror.
{end} More at danielou-paglia.html.
(6) Two thoughts of Acharya - reply to Israel Shamir
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:02:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Acharya S <acharya_s3@yahoo.com>
Well, hello! Hi nice to hear from you.
My preliminary response to your reply is that the following is completely false and incorrect, and the source is extremely vitriolic and unreliable:
"I saw in an interview (http://www.tektonics.org/print.php4) given by Acharya that she is a great believer in space invaders and in contact with UFOs."
I am not a "great believer in space invaders and in contact with UFOs," and never have stated that in any interview. This person you cite consistently posts falsehoods about not only me and my work but also the work of many other mythicists and freethinkers.
I'm disappointed by this ridiculous cheap shot, Mr. Shamir. I had thought better of you. But, thanks for getting the word out there!
(7) Two thoughts of Acharya Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:06:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Acharya S <acharya_s3@yahoo.com>
It is most amusing that yesterday I was also criticized by a Sitchinite for not believing in aliens! As concerns mindless beliefs, I find it further amusing and ironic that someone (Shamir) who fervently believes there's an invisible Jewish guy named Jesus floating around in the sky is bagging on the belief in aliens! What is an "alien?" An invisible Jewish guy floating around in the sky, perhaps? Christ-insanity is full of "aliens": God the Giant Space Alien; His Son, Jesus; the Holy Ghost (a ghost, for heaven's sake!); Satan; a gazillion angels and devils, etc., et al., ad nauseam. Quite a Space Invaders game, that!
(8) Was Superman Jewish?, by Schneir Levin
This is G o o g l e's cache of http://www.cc.gatech.edu/people/home/yuriy/superman.html.
Was Superman Jewish? Schneir Levin Johannesburg, South Africa ...
(9) Copyright on the Bible
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:59:42 -0400 From: Kathy Redle <skredle@sbcglobal.net>
Peter +,
You need so many prayers I will continue to pray for you. ...
I have enough charity for you that I do not want you to burn in hell fire because you reject almighty God's sacred scripture and spend more time reading the rantings and ravings of people like Stalin and Lenin and yes the idiocy of modernist clerics like Fr. John Courtney Murray and his ilk. ...
(C) "Acharya is liable to throw out the baby with the bathwater"
(1) Let truth be the criterion - Acharya & the 3 Ways of Knowing God
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:12:38 +1000 From: Nadir Martello <amar5249@bigpond.net.au>
Peter,
You not only promote in your newsletter Gnostic writing for your readers, but you are hunting for more Gnostic material for them too. The likes of Acharya S <acharya_s3@ya hoo.com> and the John Kaminsky types, among others, are the proof of what I am saying is correct.
Matter of fact, Acharya S doesnt even know you.
The below excerpt taken from your newsletter tells just that. Here it is:
<(2) The Pagan Origins of Christianity, by Acharya S
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:25:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Acharya S <acharya_s3@yahoo.com>
<If you like this pithy pontification from the Right Rev. Rick, you <might <also enjoy the following:>
The by Acharya S and From: Acharya S makes it look like she sent it to you for you to print.
Back to let truth be the criterion - what is your answer now, Peter?
{REPLY (Peter M): Acharya sent that comment to me, by Replying to All the respondents to the discussion; I happened to be one of them. Since it was a reply to Shamir's criticism of her, and since I had published Shamir's criticism, I felt it appropriate to also publish her reply. This was not to her disadvantage in any way} ...
You are a follower of Rev. Acharya S ; I am of Jesus Christ who is my criterion and yardstick for truth, for He is the TRUTH. Jesus said to Thomas, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
[John 14:6] {end}
REPLY (Peter M):
The difference between Acharya and me, is that I maintain a religious attitude, a reverence - to I know not what.
It may surprise you to learn that there is a stream within Christianity that emphasises NOT KNOWING. That is, UNCERTAINTY rather than DOCTRINE or DOGMA.
John Courtney Murray shows this in his study on Thomas Aquinas' The Three Ways of Knowing God: murray.html.
The greatest achievement of medieval philosophers was, not systematic theology, but the discovery that the more we know, the more we are aware of what we don't know.
Aquinas' formulation establishes a bridge between Western and Eastern concepts of divinity, the former "personal", the latter "impersonal" i.e. brahman, karma or tao, because even in the "personal" case, we cannot understand God's nature: daoist.html.
Acharya is liable to throw out the baby with the bathwater. She does a service in charting the borrowing of mythology and cultural icons; but in ridiculing the mythology we have inherited from the past, she fails to appreciate that it may contain cultural treasures.
For example, the Catholic Monstrance, whose golden rays emanate outwards from the centre, was borrowed from the religion of the Sun-God.
This means that Catholicism, and Judaism too, even though roundly condemning "pagan" practices, have inadvertently helped to preserve some of them, by incorporating them into their liturgy or holy books.
Judaism preserves knowledge of the Sacred Marriage rites of Sumeria and Phoenicia in its book The Song of Solomon. Being in the Bible, it cannot be rejected; the puritans interpret it away, as allegorical: jewish-taoist.html.
Sacred Marriage rites were no doubt practiced in pre-Zoroastrian forms of Judaism, including Solomon's Temple: toynbee.html.
Ezra reconstructed Judaism, borrowing from the religion of the Persian Empire: zoroastrianism.html.
Just as each of us values his or her own memory of our life as a child, so it is appropriate to treasure the cultural pathways through which we have become the way we are.
We may be no longer able to believe those earlier beliefs, or practice the rituals, but we treasure them and need to pass on the knowledge of them to future generations.
The alternative is a "cultural lobotomy".
(D) "Right Reverend Acharya S - International Church of Astrotheology"
(1) Bible cf the Rig Veda - Acharya caught out
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:22:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Acharya S <acharya_s3@yahoo.com>
Oh, for Goddess's sake, Peter, will these arrogant, condescending Catholic/Christian religious-fanatic ranters never cease with their contemptuous, demented drivel?
"You need so many prayers..." Well, gee, Kathy, because you don't believe in the Hindu elephant-headed god Ganesha, I think you need so many prayers, and I'm going to the temple to pray for you!
I pray one day that you, Kathy, will be a sister in Lord Shiva! I hope you get knocked off your "Christ savior complex" horse! Kathy, you are too funny! Even though you obviously take yourself so seriously with your bogus, delusional religion! Are you going to reject the 3500 years or more that the Indian sacred text the Rig Veda has proved itself to be true?!!
"You look for things to pick on so you don't have to get down on your knees and repent." Oh, dear! But, have you accepted the Lord and Savior Krishna yet, Kathy? If not, tsk, tsk!! You are avoiding Him who loves you by following a false religion! "I have enough charity that I don't want you to burn in hell fire..." Well, gee, Kathy, that's mighty big of you! Megalomaniacal even!
Blah, blah, blah. How tiresome is this relentless religious rubbish.
The Right Reverend Acharya S International Church of Astrotheology http://www.truthbeknown.com {end}
REPLY (Peter M):
But the usual Hindu interpretation of the Rig Veda, in allegorical not literal terms, is NOT true. The Rig Veda is actually a record of the Aryan destruction of the Harappan Civilization: rig-veda.html ...
Most of the Rig Veda, like the Jewish Bible, has a mentality of "Religious Tribalism". Towards the end, there are a few poems which reflect a universal theme, obviously composed late, around 1000 BC. It was that change of thinking which paved the way for the rise of the Jains, the Buddhists etc. The same is also found in the Bible.
(E) Acharya says she "does not throw the baby out with the bathwater"
(1) Acharya says she "does not throw the baby out with the bathwater"
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:15:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Acharya S <acharya_s3@yahoo.com>
Hi Peter -
I appreciate you promoting my work, but the following is a misinterpretation of it that I would like to address:
"Acharya is liable to throw out the baby with the bathwater. She does a service in charting the borrowing of mythology and cultural icons; but in ridiculing the mythology we have inherited from the past, she fails to appreciate that it may contain cultural treasures."
In no way do I throw the baby out with the bathwater, nor do I ignore the "cultural treasures." What I do is to extricate these treasures out of the dross that has accumulated over the centuries, showing what the mythology truly represents. I am a mythologist. I have studied mythology for about 4 decades, informally and formally. I certainly do not ridicule mythology. I ridicule the arrogance and conceit that falsely presents mythology as "history" and the "true religion," that's for sure!
Nor am I without awe for the cosmos. In fact, I frequently state in my writings and on radio programs that one of my "purposes" is to hopefully instill in my readers and listeners a profound awe of the cosmos! Following is the back cover copy from my recently released book, "Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled."
Picking up where the bestselling and controversial The Christ Conspiracy leaves off, Suns of God leads the reader through an electrifying exploration of the origin and meaning of the world's religions and popular gods. Over the past several centuries, the Big Three spiritual leaders have been the Lords Christ, Krishna and Buddha, whose stories and teachings are curiously and confoundingly similar to each other. The tale of a miraculously born redeemer who overcomes heroic challenges, teaches ethics and morality, performs marvels and wonders, acquires disciples and is famed far and wide, to be persecuted, killed and reborn, is not unique but a global phenomenon recurring in a wide variety of cultures long before the Christian era.
As archaeologist, historian, mythologist and linguist Acharya S thoroughly reveals, these numerous godmen were not similar "historical" personages who "walked the earth" but anthropomorphizations of the central focus of the famous "mysteries." A major element of the cryptic, international brotherhood, these mysteries extend back thousands of years and are found worldwide, reflecting an ancient tradition steeped in awe and intrigue. The reasons for this religious development, which has inspired the creation of entire cultures, are unveiled in this in-depth analysis containing fascinating and original research based on evidence both modern and ancient, captivating information kept secret and hidden for ages.
(F) Shamir seems to be an agent for INCREASED "Judaic forces"
(1) "the Judaic hold on American discourse is slipping" - Acharya replies to Shamir
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:39:58 -0800 (PST) From: Acharya S <acharya_s3@yahoo.com>
Although Shamir rails aganst "Judaic forces," Communism IS a huge, atrocious "Judaic force" that has destroyed countless lives. It was created as a means to exploit ruthlessly the stupid Goyim, as was Christianity. As I've said before, park the Trojan Horse of Christianity at the gate of the Nations and "the chosen" spill out to take the reins. Shamir seems to be an agent for INCREASED "Judaic forces" throughout the world by supporting these two clearly Judaic constructs.
(2) Jesus Christ a Myth [Anti-Zionist Coalition]
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:42:38 +0200 From: "Israel Shamir" <shamir@home.se>
Acharya and John,
I have heard enough of the Christ-denial in my life; I was born, brought up and live in a country where your view is an official one and believers in Christ are frowned upon, at best. Your views are such an OLD hat. Indeed, every Jew is of your opinion, and if you wish I can introduce you to a Judaic publisher - they will buy it anytime. But for us Christians it has no value whatsoever. All your arguments were presented by Celsius and refuted by Origen some 1800 years ago. The main argument of Acharya perfectly fits Napoleon, another Sun-myth with his 12 marchals.
As for Ardeshir, I began to doubt his existence :-)
Shamir
From: "Acharya S" <acharya_s3@yahoo.com> : Yes, John, and the carpenter-god or smith-god with the : 12 helpers/disciples is an OLD theme that was simply : rehashed when the priestly faction fabricated Jesus : Christ. No big surprise there. : --- John Kaminski <skylax@comcast.net> wrote: : > Get your facts straight. It can be proved Julius and : > Alexander walked this earth. Jesus is not in that category. Period. : > jk
(3) Religions are manmade nonsense - Acharya
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 16:27:52 -0800 (PST) From: Acharya S <acharya_s3@yahoo.com>
... Mr. Shamir, you seem to delight in this Acharya-bashing, a peculiar obsession and one which does not and will never negate the facts that religions are manmade endeavors and that Jesus Christ is a fictional character. ...
Now, why don't YOU stop beating a dead horse, to wit false ideologies based in irrationality and nonsense.
(4) Acharya's book The Christ Conspiracy 'virtually proves that "Jesus Christ" is a mythical character. ...'
{What does "virtually proves" mean? Either it's a proof, or it's not}
From Acharya's website:
http://www.truthbeknown.com/christcon.htm
... Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold by Acharya S. A book that virtually proves that "Jesus Christ" is a mythical character. ...
http://www.freethinkers.org/library/historical/historicus/jesus.html Did Jesus Ever Exist or Is Christianity Founded Upon a Myth? - Excellent expose of the absurd arguments of Christian apologists
(6) Acharya argues that Krishna was Crucified too
Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled
{p. 241} The orthodox depiction of Krishna's death relates that he was shot in the foot by a hunter's arrow while under a tree. As is true with so much in mythology, and as we have seen abundantly, there are variances in Krishna's tale, including the account of his death. In The Bible in India, citing as his sources the "Bagaveda-Gita and Brahminical traditions," French scholar and Indianist Jacolliot recounts the death of "Christna" as presciently understood by the godman, who, without his disciples, went to the Ganges to "work out stains." After thrice plunging into the sacred river, Krishna knelt and prayed as he awaited death, which was ultimately caused by multiple arrows shot by a criminal who had been exposed by Krishna. The executioner, named Angada, was thereafter condemned to wander the banks of the Ganges for eternity, subsisting off the dead. Jacolliot goes on to describe Krishna's death thus:
{quote} The body of the God-man was suspended to the branches of a tree by his murderer, that it might become the prey of the vultures. {endquote}
Moreover, this legend is evidently but a variant of the orthodox tale,
constituting
an apparently esoteric tradition
{p. 242} recognizing Krishna's death as a "crucifixion. Indeed,
as Jonn Remsburg
says in The Christ:
{quote} There is a tradition, though not to be found in the Hindoo scriptures,
that
Krishna, like Christ, was crucified.2 {endquote}
{Endnote 2 on p. 286 reads "www.positiveatheism.org/hist/rmsbrg11.htm".}
{Why isn't it in the Hindu scriptures? Where is it found, and what is
the evidence
for it in India today? Remsberg gives no quote, no reference, yet Acharya
touts this statement by him as evidence.}
{Jacolliot does not say the words which Acharya puts into his mouth. In Jesus' case, crucifixion was the intended means of death, whereas hanging Krishna on a tree was a kind of sky-burial, as practised in the Zoroastrian religion and in Tibet today. In sky-burial, bodies are exposed for vultures and wild dogs to eat the flesh. The Crucifixion is a Jewish punishment for Jesus' defiance, whereas Krishna's killing, in Hindu tradition, is accidental. The Crucifixion is a central theme in the Christian story, whereas Acharya is unable to produce any current Hindu stories featuring the "crucifixion" of Krishna.}
(8) Acharya's statement that Jesus Christ nerver existed - Peter M.
Acharya's reply to Shamir on this issue has forced me to enter the argument, when I had hoped not to until I have read her two books (which I have ordered).
Nadir and Kathy, Catholic Traditionalists, see me as being in Acharya's camp. She and I agree that many of the stories told about Jesus, and much of the theology about him, were copied from stories about other people.
But there are important differences: she argues that Jesus never existed; I think that he did, and was probably a commendable person. She argues that the creators of the Jesus stories were conspirators; I think they were just error-prone humans as we all are.
Jesus stories resemble those of Osiris: postmortem-journeys.html,
and the ahimsa tradition of India (Jain, Buddhist etc): buddhism.html.
That tradition also influenced the Pythagoreans: india.html,
and the Cynics, from whom there is a direct influence in the New Testament: downing.html.
F. Gerald Downing's book CHRIST AND THE CYNICS: Jesus and other Radical Preachers in First-Century Tradition (JSOT Press, Sheffield UK, 1988) puts a strong case that the early Christians, even though Jews, were followers of the Cynic philosophy. That is, they were Hellenized Jews who absorbed the Cynic philosophy of simple living, but put a Jewish twist on it (emphasizing the collective rather than the individual).
One can also detect Zoroastrian influences. Living near Alexandria, they encountered numerous philosophies, and constructed a synthesis of them - much as we do today.
Constructing mythologies is done in our day too: e.g. the heroic mythology of George Washington, or Woodrow Wilson, or Lenin, or Trotsky, or Hitler, or Einstein, depending on one's perspective.
The early Christians would be unlikely to have constructed an elaborate mythology about Jesus if he had not existed. Compare the case of Osiris. In Egyptian theology, he was a man who became a god, like Jesus. Many Egyptologists argue that he had probably been a king, whose fame was what led to his apotheosis.
Acharya's claim that Jesus never existed reverses the burden of proof. How can you prove that someone of 2000 years ago never existed? By going this one step further, and staking her reputation on it, she has set herself an impossible task.
Similarly with her claim, from ephemeral sources, that Krishna was crucified, the implication being that Christians borrowed this too. Benjamin Walker describes Krishna's death, in Hindu World: An Encyclopedic Survey of Hinduism:
"Only his faithful charioteer Daruka remained with him to the end and attended his last days. Full of sorrow Krishna and Balarama retired to the forest where Balarama died in his sleep. Krishna mourned by himself on a river bank, was mistaken for a deer and shot through the foot by the hunter Jaras ... When Krishna died his spirit ascended to his paradise ... The notion of the dying god is widespread in the Near East. All these themes are found nowhere else in Indian mythology." (p. 566).
Nothing about crucifixion here. By going one step too far, Acharya makes herself the issue.
Her direct style can give the impression of malice; at the very least, she takes insufficient steps to counter that perception. This is a pity, because there is much of value in her work.
In my own situation, I am aware that my critics prefer not to take me on over my strong points, but to home in on any errors or weak points they may find. For this reason, I pay great attention to minor details; corrections often emerge from discussions with those of different opinions. I have learned to avoid overstatement (which gives critics easy pot-shots), and to cultivate understatement instead.
The early Bolsheviks announced that they were freeing the people from Christianity too. They shot bishops and priests, imprisoned and tortured many, pulled down churches, turned churches into museums. And what was the result? Their excesses became the issue, and they lost the support of the people.
(9) Acharya's statement that Christianity is a Jewish conspiracy - Peter M.
Numerous competing groups of "Christians" and "Jews" each think of themselves as the True Jews, carriers of the Jewish Covenant, and the others as backsliders or heretics. No wonder there are lots of religious wars.
Christianity and Islam are offspring of Judaism; less well known is Judaism's own derivation, in particular from Zoroastrianism. Of the "Judaic" religions, only Islam acknowledges the debt to Zoroaster.
Early Christians were persuaded by Hellenized Jewish writers that the Jews were of greater antiquity than other civilizations. Solomon's kingdom left no monuments, whereas those of Egypt and Athens were for all to see; but early Christians were getting a different view through reading the Bible.
Marcion was the first to cast the Judaism out of Christianity.
Gerald Massey's Lectures, at http://members.tripod.com/~pc93/gmlectrs.htm, resembles Winwood Reade's slightly earlier book The Martyrdom of Man. Its call for a rationalistic religion based on the ascent of man reminds me of H. G. Wells' views (which came later). Perhaps Massey was an influence on him.
Massey rejects Christianity, including the Gospels, but accepts the Talmud as a reliable source. I wonder if he was a Freemason.
Shamir implies that "Judaic" forces, although not authoring those books, gave them favourable publicity and propelled their sales.
Harry Waton was a Jewish Communist who elucidated the Jewish approach to both Christianity and Communism, in his book A Program FOR THE JEWS An Answer TO ALL ANTI-SEMITES A PROGRAM FOR HUMANITY: watonpgm.zip.
He says that Judaism is the true religion, the only one dedicated to salvation in this world; all other major religions look to a heavenly paradise after death. Christianity began as a branch of Judaism, but, through Paul's (Roman) triumph over the James (Jerusalem) faction, deviated from it and incorporated "pagan" ways.
Acharya agrees on that point. I think that the "pagan" borrowings give colour to Christianity, compared to Jewish aridity and sterility. Anyway, Judaism itself borrowed from Canaanite, Egyptian and Zoroastrian religion.
Waton says that Jews have to re-capture Christianity. We see this happening before our eyes, with Christianity becoming a "social gospel" of direct action, and various churches announcing - contrary to the New Testament - that the "old" covenant never ended. On the contrary, the expression "new testament" implies "new covenant".
Waton also says that Communism is Judaism's universalist program for humanity, but that, through Stalin's seizure of power, they lost control of it - and must re-capture it, as in the case of Christianity.
An atheist like Ben-Gurion, Waton like him believed in a central role for the Third Temple as the shrine from which Jewish light will disseminate to the rest of the world.
Waton frankly admits that Jews need to use Christianity to achieve these goals; but what he has in mind, is restoring the Jewish component of Christianity, which means strengthening Protestantism and weakening the Roman and Orthodox branches.
These branches incorporate some Judaism, but it immunizes them against further infection, much as vaccines do. That is Shamir's point: it makes them resistant to a Jewish takeover.
Like Acharya, I have noted the non-Jewish cultural streams in Christianity.
The Cynic philosophy is an example. This is entirely non-Jewish, and quite harmless. It does not reject Greek culture; nor do the other non-Jewish borrowings, for the most part.
Where then does Jewish iconoclasm come from? Whence its rejection of all non-Jewish culture?
From two sources: the iconoclasm of Akhnaten, and Zoroastrianism, the religion of the Persian empire during the Jewish exile in Babylon.
There is an important difference between these two. Both are "monotheistic", but Akhnaten's is monistic while Zoroaster's is dualistic.
There is no devil in Akhnaten's religion; yet he set about destroying traditional Egyptian religion, as "pagan".
Zoroastrianism does have a devil, a heavenly being rather than an earthly one. Judaism rejects this dualistic component, and the heavenly devil, instead settling for the pure monotheism of Akhnaten, but with non-Jews playing the role of the earthly (not heavenly) devil. Thus all their culture is evil, and must be shut out and destroyed if possible. Hence the periodic cultural revolutions launched by the "monotheistic" religions.
(10) Acharya's statement that Communism is a Jewish conspiracy - Peter M.
It WAS a Jewish conspiracy, until Stalin it stole it from them and created a Russian version. For his pains, he was murdered in 1953, within 2 months of the Doctors' Plot being announced: death-of-stalin.html.
After his death, the Jewish faction (Beria, Kaganovich, Molotov) gained control, with Malenkov nominally in charge, but were overthrown a few months later by Khruschev of the Russian faction: beria.html.
The "fall of Communism" is the fall of the Russian variant.
The Jewish variant is dominant in Western cities, going under the names "International Socialist", Trotskyist, "New Left", "Green Left", "Marxist Anti-Communist", Deconstruction, Cultural Studies etc.
Not all New Leftists are Jews; probably most aren't. But Isaac Deutscher was a central figure in New Left Review: deutscher.html.
Chomsky and Soros are the leaders today.
Their flagship issues are Open Borders, Feminism, Gay Marriage and other "minority" movements. The various kinds of Victimhood are all pale imitations of Jewish Victimhood. They all model themselves on "the" holocaust.
New Leftists are often anti-Zionist, but keep quiet about the holocaust industry, and Jewish domination of Hollywood and the media. They say that the war is for oil, denying that it's for Israel.
Shamir brings the Jewish factor out into the open.
(G) Acharya's New Age Conglomerate
To judge from the bibliographies in Acharya's books, our interests and book collections overlap substantially; but I take a "live and let live" position, whereas Acharya "takes no prisoners".
She has nothing to say about Jewish power. Shamir argues (item 1) that to attack Christianity is to strengthen Jewish dominance, by default.
"The hunt for Anti-Semites is a hunt for pockets of resistance to the new world order, like Nazis going house to house." -- Israel Shamir http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/
My approach is to attack the root, not the branch; Judaism, not Christianity. I seek to get the Judaism out of Christianity. Apart from that, I look to the Greek Cynics and the Chinese Taoists.
I emphasise uncertainty - the limits of human knowledge; that we only know partial truths - whereas Acharya wants to replace one system of certainty (Christian dogmatism) with another (Atheistic or New Age).
My study of the Protocols of Zion is as controversial as anything Acharya has written. Yet I took the trouble to present the strongest arguments of my opponents (Israel Zangwill, Herman Bernstein, Norman Cohn), in their own words. I did so because, unless I can refute their strongest points, my case is not made: toolkit.html.
When I asked Acharya her position on Gay Marriage, she declined to say, on the ground that I might use it in "Acharya-bashing". That's avoiding this most important issue, which helped turned the tide in the recent US and Australian elections. It's noticeable that militant Atheists, of the type Acharya often quotes, have come out for Gay Marriage (items 11 & 12).
(1) Shamir on Acharya, Kaminski et al - Anti-Christian Bigotry explodes at Village Voice (2) Kaminski & Ardeshir attack Shamir over Acharya (3) Acharya's New Age Conglomerate (4) Summary of Acharya's position - from The Christ Conspiracy (5) Summary of Acharya's position - from Suns of God (6) The Christ Conspiracy - reliance on too many indirect quotations (7) The Christ Conspiracy - Dating the Gospels (8) Gerald Massey disparages the Gospels but endorses the Talmud (9) Alvin Boyd Kuhn's attacks on Christianity lead to favourable obituary in New York Times (10) Egyptologists dispute Kuhn-Massey-Harpur (Acharya-like) claims (11) Militant Atheists stand up for Gay Marriage (12) Google Results 1 - 10 of about 35,800 for atheists "gay marriage". (0.04 seconds) (13) Summary - how to engage Acharya
(1) Shamir on Acharya, Kaminski et al - Anti-Christian Bigotry explodes at Village Voice
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:06:53 +0200 From: Israel Shamir <shamir@home.se>
Dear Peter, here is a sterling proof that our friends Acharya, Kaminski, Mehta et al just repeat usual Jewish drivel.
http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/thisweek.htm
[The last time we checked the Village Voice was a Jewish-owned, Jewish-edited paper in Jewish New York City. The paper was bought by Leonard Stern in 1985 (editor: Richard Goldstein; publisher: David Schneiderman). Stern personally pledged $5 million to the United Jewish Appeal in 1974, part of a campaign that year that 'unabashedly raised money in staggering amounts to send to Israel." [ISAACS, p. 266] Stern eventually sold his newspaper holdings in 2000 to the president and publisher of the Village Voice, David Schneiderman, who headed an investment group. This new conglommerate was called Village Voice Media (CFO: Schneiderman; president: Arthur Howe). Three of the four following trashers of Christianity in its recent pages are Jewish.]
Anti-Christian Bigotry explodes at Village Voice,
by William Donohue, Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, November 16, 2004 http://www.catholicleague.org/04press_releases/quarter4/041116_voice.htm
"Catholic League president William Donohue called attention today to the anti-Christian explosion under way at the Village Voice: ...
(2) Kaminski & Ardeshir attack Shamir over Acharya
THIS is "Proof"? (was: Acharya, Kaminski et al)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:14:32 -0500 From: John Kaminski <skylax@comcast.net>
Is it my imagination or is Israel Shamir's credibility plummeting by the minute? ... Shamir simply does not understand the difference between dialogue and proselytization. It's too bad, because it taints all his other fine political observations.
For the record, in my mind there is absolutely no difference between Judaism and Christianity in terms of the evil influence they have on the minds of their deluded believers. Both creeds are savage relics of the Dark Ages.
jk
On Nov 19, 2004, at 12:21 PM, Ardeshir Mehta wrote:
THIS is proffered as "proof"?
(3) Acharya's New Age Conglomerate - by Peter Myers
Acharya treads a path pioneered by Gerald Massey and his pupil Alvin Boyd Kuhn, and quotes them regularly.
Her books The Christ Conspiracy (CC) and Suns of God (SoG) attack Christianity in a militant-atheist style, but, at the end, veer off in a New Age direction:
"Despite the vilification of the so-called New Age movement, the fact is that we are entering into a new age." (CC, p. 416).
'As Hancock says, "We live today in the astrological no man's land at the end of the 'Age of Pisces,' on the threshold of the 'New Age' of Aquarius.' (CC, p. 417).
"We have entered a new era, based on the astronomical precession of the equinoxes" (SoG, p. 567).
It's cast in millennial terms:
'... in this age in which "the truth will be shouted from the rooftops"' (CC, p. 416).
Acharya's books are a conglomerate of many pieces of information from other authors, glued together with her own unremitting ideological matrix.
One of Acharya's sources is Martin A. Larson's book The Story of Christian Origins, originally published as The Religion of the Occident.
This book, popular in militant atheist circles, lacks Acharya's New Age bent. Larson uses a less passionate, more academic style. He traces the influences of the religions of Egypt, Babylon, India etc on Christianity, devoting a chapter to each source of influence.
Of Larson, Acharya writes, "Larson traces the origins of monasticism and renunciation to India" (CC, p. 381). I believe Larson correct, and have long been interested in this derivation.
Although I have found Larson a good source, he relies on his constituent sources, some of which are out of date.
For example, he accepted the theory of L. A. Waddell that the Sumerians were an Aryan people.
A summary of Larson's chapter 1 is at http://www.osiris.freeservers.com/
Larson writes:
{p. 2} The Emergence of Isis and Osiris.
Tem, Shu, and Tefnut were worsphipped by the primitive and dark-skinned aborigines some six or seven thousand years ago. But
{p. 3} sometime before 3000 B.C., Egypt was invaded by a light-skinned race of Aryan-Sumerians who stormed out of Mesopotamia, conquered the natives, and engrafted new gods onto the older pantheon. ... Osiris was undoubtedly an early ruler of theirs. {end}
Larson depicts the history of the Middle East in racial terms: Aryans established the civilizations of Sumeria and Egypt (p. 3). They were overthrown by Semites - the Bablyonians and Assyrians (p. 24); then the Aryan Persians overthew the Semites (p. 25). The Arabs, in turn, re-established Semitic dominance.
The Introduction to Larson's book is by Harry Elmer Barnes, of Far Right circles.
The (Nazi) Stormfront site says of Waddell:
"Egyptian Civilization and its Sumerian Origin. A master work by Prof. L.A. Waddell. Professor Waddell shows that ancient Sumeria was the worlds first civilization. Sumerians, who were whites, migrated to the area of Egypt and there built a great civilization, politically incorrect though it may be to so say. Hard cover, 223 pages, 118 illustrations. $12.95" http://www.stormfront.org/truth_at_last/books/Egyptian-Civilization.htm.
Waddell's book is in the bibliography of SoG. Acharya has followed Larson on Waddell's theory that the Sumerians were Aryan. She writes:
"Of the Aryan/Iranian invaders, Larson says: {quote} These Iranians did more than drive the Semitic races into permanent eclipse: themselves descended from older Sumerians, they were the pre-historic conquerors of Egypt and India as well as the progenitors of the Greeks, the Romans, and the Teutons: in short, they have ruled most of the civilized world for two and a half millenniums.{endquote}" (CC, p. 383).
Waddell was wrong about the Sumerians being Aryan.
The Sumerican language was agglutinative, like those of the Finno-Ugric family, and Japanese. Indo-European languages are not agglutinative.
"... The Sumerian language was not deciphered until the nineteenth century of our era, when it was found to be different from both the Indo-European and Semitic language groups. ... By 2500 BC libraries were established at Shuruppak and Eresh, and schools had been established to train scribes ... discipline was by caning. ... Sumerian was an agglutinative language not just in its verb construction, but also in its noun or morpheme construction. " http://www.crystalinks.com/sumerlanguage.html.
"What is an agglutinative language?" http://www.sil.org/linguistics/GlossaryOfLinguisticTerms/WhatIsAnAgglutinativeLanguage.htm.
"Agglutinative languages make extensive use of derivative suffixes, i.e. mostly invariable morphemes, to word stems to give the resulting word a new meaning. Finnish, Turkish, and Japanese are agglutinative." http://www.paul-raedle.de/vtrain/db-xx-info.htm.
"Ways of Classifying Languages ... 2.agglutinative 1.words made of multiple syllables; each syllable has meaning 2.e.g., Turkish. For example, ev (house), evler (houses), evlerde (in the houses), evlerden (from the houses) ... 4.inflective 1.an alteration in or addition to a form of a word to indicate such things as case, gender, number, mood, and tense; one fusional affix may mark several grammatical categories at the same time 2.e.g., Latin & Old English" http://www.cord.edu/faculty/sprunger/e315/i-e.htm.
Why do I make such an issue of what might seem a minor point? To show that Acharya is vulnerable to the weaknesses in her sources. Especially because she filters out sources that do not agree with her line, for example on the dating of the Gospels.
Cyrus Gordon wrote that Semites did invade Egypt during its prehistory: "Egypt had a long prehistory ... There is evidence of a number of migrations. At an early date (perhaps well back in the fifth millenium) Hamito-Semites swept down from Asia into the Nile Valley ..." diop.html.
Aryans did invade the Middle East, not at the beginning of Sumerian or Semitic civilization but at about 2000 BC. Martin Bernal convincingly argues that they established warrior aristocracies, and participated in the Hyksos invasion of Egypt, which ended the Middle Kingdom: archaeology-bible.html.
Both Gordon and Bernal were/are Jewish scholars, but they eschewed ideology in their history.
(4) Summary of Acharya's position - from The Christ Conspiracy
Acharya S, The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold (Adventures Unlimited Press, Kempton, Illinois, 1999).
{p. 407} Conclusion
For nearly 2,000 years hundreds of millions of people have been taught that a historical "son of God" called Jesus Christ lived, did miracles, suffered and died as a blood-atonement especially established once and for all by God Himself, the Creator of the entire cosmos. In reality, the gospel story of Jesus is not a factual portrayal of a historical "master" who walked the earth 2,000 years ago but a myth built upon other myths and godmen, who in turn were personifications of the ubiquitous solar mythos and ritual found in countless cultures around the world thousands of years before the Christian era. As such, the tale served to amalgamate the numerous religions, cults and sects of the Roman Empire and beyond, to create a state religion that was promulgated through forgery, fraud and force. ...
{p. 409} Indeed, the efforts to find a historical Jesus have been pitiful and agonizing, based mainly on what he was not: To wit, the virgin birth is not history, and Jesus's parents were not called Mary and Joseph. Jesus was not from Nazareth, which didn't exist at the time, and the magi, star, angels and shepherds did not appear at his birth. He didn't escape to Egypt, because Herod was not slaughtering children, and he didn't amaze the priests with his teaching at age 12 in the temple. He did not suddenly at 30 reappear out of nowhere to mystify people who, if the birth stories had been true, would have already known him. The "historical" Jesus didn't do miracles or raise the dead. The sayings and sermons weren't originally his. He wasn't betrayed by Judas, since that would be illogical if he were already "world famous." There was no trial, no crucifixion and no resurrection.
Such are some of the numerous parts of the gospel story that have been thrown out by "skeptical" historicizers and evemerists over the centuries because they represent elements found ubiquitously in the myths of the solar heroes and in mystery rites. Tossing all these parts out, we might wonder, even more skeptically, where is the historical Jesus Christ? Have we found the core in the onion? The leap of faith even among evemerists is mindboggling. If 99 percent of this story is based on the myths and only one perceht on any "history," what are people admiring and worshipping?
Although they are taught that "Jesus" represented a stunning break from the "old Pagan world," believers are worshipping basically the same deity or deities as the Pagans - in fact, practically all of them rolled into one. ...
{p. 410} Of this greatest story ever sold, Massey states:
{quote} In this way it can be proved that our Christology is mummified mythology, and legendary lore, which have been palmed off upon us in the Old Testament and the New, as divine revelation uttered by the very voice of God. We have the same conversion of myth into history in the New Testament that there is in the Old - the one being effected in a supposed fulfillment of the other! Mythos and history have changed places once, and have to change them again before we can understand their right relationship, or real significance. ... {endquote}
{p. 412} And Larson states:
{quote} We believe that, had there been no Christianity, Greek enlightenment would, after a fierce struggle with Mithraism and its offspring Manichaeism, have emerged victorious. There would have been no Dark Ages. {endquote}
{p. 415} In fact, rather than serving as an improvement, Christianity has been a psychic trauma, uprooting ideas and deities that were worshipped since Neolithic times, particularly nature gods and goddesses. The sexist Judeo-Christian-Islamic ideology has been a war on all things considered female, including Nature and Mother Earth. The patriarchal age has represented the military campaign of the sky-god father-figure against the earth-goddess mother-figure. In the process, the Goddess's groves - so sacred to the ancients that to cut them down was sometimes a capital offense - have been plowed under and her creatures butchered in a vicious quest for riches and aheaven." The current culture is now headed for environmental cataclysm, because this ideology has served to disconnect human beings from the earth, to constantly focus their attention not on this life and this reality but on an afterlife and another world altogether. ...
{p. 416} The New Age
It has been demonstrated that Christianity pretty much got it all wrong - except the end to its erroneous means: It succeeded in enriching and empowering its most effective proponents many times over. According to the same astrological system used to create Christianity, the age for such divisiveness, fascism and hierarchical exploitation is now drawing to a close, and Iying, deceit, cheating and stealing will fall by the wayside. Included in this age in which "the truth will be shouted from the rooftops" is the exposure of Earth's "dirty little secret." As Jacolliot says:
Apostles of Jesus, you have counted too much upon human credulity, trusted too much that the future might not unveil your manoeuvres and your fabricated recitals - the sanctity of your object made you too oblivious of means, and you have taken the good faith of peoples by surprise in re-producing the fables of another age, which you believed buried for ever.
But the future is now, and the maneuvers are being unveiled. As far as Christianity's role in this "New Age," Carpenter states:
{quote} Christianity therefore, as I say, must either now come frankly forward and, acknowledging its parentage from the great Order of the past, seek to rehabilitate that and carry mankind one step fonvard in the path of evolution - or else it must perish. There is no alternative. {endquote}
Despite the vilification of the so-called New Age movement, the fact is that we are entering into a new age. "I am with you always to the close of the age" - so ends the Gospel of Matthew. What does this mysterious statement mean, and why was this all-important book ended with it? The age referred to in the gospel tale is that of Pisces, and, through contrivance and duplicity, coercion and slaughter, the fish-god "Jesus," the Piscean Solar Avatar, has indeed been with us, but now it is the close of the age, and his time is over.
{p. 417} As Hancock says, "We live today in the astrological no man's land at the end of the 'Age of Pisces,' on the threshold of the 'New Age' of Aquarius. Traditionally these times of transition between one age and the next have been regarded as ill-omened." Ill-omened verily, as the ongoing destruction of the earth and the endless warfare over ideology will indeed produce the "Armageddon" so long awaited and planned for by those who cannot live for today but must look towards an afterlife. By realizing the cultural unity revealed behind the Christ conspiracy, however, humanity can pull together and prevent this fall, to create a better world.
{end}
(5) Summary of Acharya's position - from Suns of God
Acharya S, Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled (Adventures Unlimited Press, Kempton, Illinois, 2004).
{p. 558} By inspecting the origins of religion, which influences billions around the globe, we can recognize that, although portrayed otherwise, a multiplicity of cultures have much in common with each other. The majority of religions possess at their nucleus not a god, messiah, prophet or other anthropomorphic concept but one genderless, raceless and formless source viewed by the ancient religion-builders as a "divine science." This science or knowledge began to be formulated many thousands of years ago, largely based on human perception of the environment, the sun, moon, stars, planets and nature in general. In creating a view of the cosmos in this manner, mankind added qualities of his own and designed a mystical, mythical and colorful pantheon of deities and demons to populate his world and worlds unseen. So numerous are these religious, spiritual, metaphysical and mystical concepts developed over the millennia of observation and practice of ritual and rite that it would be difficult to produce anything new. As the saying goes, there is nothing new under the sun, and when various important ideologies are examined, they resolve themselves into an initial and profound awe of creation, the world, the cosmos and whoever may be responsible for all of it. The investigation of religion and mythology reveals that, while on the surface human religions and creeds appear to be disparate and divisive, the majority of them have the same roots in nature and astral worship. In actuality, most of the world's religions have
{p. 559} been stellar, lunar, soli-lunar and solar, reflecting astrotheology, or the worship of the heavens and planetary bodies.
Instead of understanding the commonalities underlying it, the proponents of religion have underscored its shallow rigidity and meanness, causing division and grief worldwide, even as they maintain some semblance of civilization. Beneath the surface of the reasonable is too often the fanatic, ready with viperous mouth or vicious weapon to do away with anyone who criticizes the precious faith, which in reality may merely be a creed of derangement, hatred and murderous intent. Stupendous destruction and wanton slaughter have been generated in the name of religion, of this god or that, the most dominant of whom resemble each other in their cruelty and brutality. Man's "holy texts" are filled with horrible tales of torture and butchery, frequently done by the "chosen," "saved" or some other such designation attached to those who blindly believe in inferior and rude ideologies. Human sacrifice in the name of any number of gods and their religions has been so awfully common that huge swaths of earth worldwide are akilling fields," beginning in ancient times and continuing into the present.
In this religiously slavish conditioning, we are told that we must mindlessly follow so-called sacred scriptures, such as the "Good Book," while such writings are often nothing of the kind, filled with countless examples of the most vile and despicable behavior. ...
{p. 560} ... A common rite among not only "Pagans" but also the Israelites, the bizarre and grisly ritual of human sacrifice is overtly at the foundation of one of the world's major religions, Christianity, which has been demonstrated to be little more than a rehash of the numerous systems that preceded it.
As they are currently proselytized, devoid of the mythological knowledge underlying them, the various popular religions are difficult to respect or take seriously, as many of their core tenets assault the credulity and insult the intelligence. For example, the
{p. 561} God of the cosmos is portrayed as all-powerful yet so incompetent and bizarre that, in order to fix a creature he made badly in the first place, he must take birth as his own son and be executed on a cross!
{p. 562} Contrary to popular belief, Christianity was not created in an atmosphere of love and peace; rather, it was formed at the ends of swords pointed at members of the clergy and laity alike. Bloody battles were fought over doctrine at every turn, each tiny and ultimately meaningless detail wrestled over tooth and nail. Bishops and their hooligans appeared at synods and slaughtered those who disagreed with them, a shameful behavior that occurred in numerous places where Christianity spread.
{p. 563} Despite its boasts and claims, Christianity is not unique, as practically all of its dogma, tenets, beliefs, myths and fables can be found in the numerous cultures that preceded it in a wide area of the world. ...
{p. 564} In the final analysis, Christ is as mythical as his predecessors, who were believed by countless millions to be "real people" but who are deemed fictional by today's mainstream scholarship. That the "life of Jesus" is a virtual smorgasbord of qualities assigned to these numerous mythical gods, godmen and heroes is evidence of his fictional nature as well. Along with the unoriginally of its professed founder comes the commonness of its tenets, as Christianity is little different from other popular creeds.
{p. 565} One of the major reasons for the pervasive cultural commonality is that religious and mythological systems have been astrotheological, especially revealed in the reverence and worship of the most visible orb, the sun, deemed as the savior and life-giver, the proxy or representative of the Divine, as well as the Deity itself. At last, it matters not what rancid reasoning apologists proffer, as the one, true, universal Lord and Savior has been and will continue to be the Sun, by whatever name, whether Apollo, Odin, Osiris, Krishna, Buddha or Christ.
Instead of emphasizing cultural commonality and leading the world into peace and prosperity, the priesthoods have focused on differences and division, soliciting their flocks with promises of superiority over other systems. In many religions, it is the duty of the priests not to educate but to mystify, and such priestcraft has been perfected over a period of millennia, with the element of terror strongly emphasized to keep the sheep in line. ...
Religions also strike at the very heart of human nature, repressing sexuality in a manner that causes tremendous psychological, emotional and physical harm. ...
{p. 566} The oppression within religion is neither Western nor Eastern but global, in cultures ancient and modern alike.
{p. 567} We have entered a new era, based on the astronomical precession of the equinoxes as well as the Western dating method. In doing so, we must also move into a new age of perception. ...
In divesting ourselves of the old, genocidal gods and religions, we need not be afraid of divine retribution. ...
{p. 568} It is time for us human beings to recognize our own divinity and that of the rest of the cosmos, to understand our own glorious nature and that of all creation, in order to develop the ultimate respect for ourselves and love for life. We must find ourselves, know ourselves and love ourselves. The way to attain this state is through education and the production of health in the body, mind and spirit. This process should be started in childhood but it can be done at any point. Nevertheless, our precious children - our destiny and future - must be raised in a kind, loving environment that does not mutilate their bodies with heinous "rituals" or their minds with deleterious notions of the universe. These steps are needed for us to finally have peace within our souls and upon our planet.
{end}
(6) The Christ Conspiracy - reliance on too many indirect quotations (Peter M)
To demolish Christianity, Acharya partly relies on quotations from Christian fathers like Augustine, which she turns against it. The problem is, for many of these quotations, she has not chased up the original source (e.g. Augustine's own writings), but has been content to quote what other authors say he wrote:
{CC, p. 25} Indeed, the story of Jesus as presented in the gospels, mass of impossibilities and contradictions that it is, has been so difficult to believe that even the fanatic Christian "doctor" and saint, Augustine (354-430), admitted, "I should not believe in the truth of the Gospels unless the authority of the Catholic Church forced me to do so." 1
{This is an indirect quote. Endnote 1, on p. 30, reads "Steiner, 168", referring to the book Christianity as Mystical Fact, by Rudolf Steiner}
{p. 55} Further Evidence of a Fraud
... For example, the eminent Church doctor Augustine readily confessed that Christianity was a rehash of what already existed long prior to the Christian era:
{quote} That which is known as the Christian religion existed among the ancients, and never did not exist; from the beginning of the human race until the time when Christ came in the flesh, at which time the true religion, which already existed, began to be called Christianity. 1 {endquote}
{Acharya takes this important quote not directly, from Augustine, but indirectly. Endnote 1, on p. 75, reads "Jackson,1". This reference is to Christianity Before Christ, by John G. Jackson, published by American Atheists}
{p. 57} In his endless apologizing, Justin reiterates the similarities between his godman and the gods of other cultures:
{quote} As to the objection of our Jesus's being crucified, I say, that suffering was common to all the aforementioned sons of Jove [Jupiter] . . . As to his being born of a virgin, you have your Perseus to balance that. As to his curing the lame, and the paralytic, and such as were cripples from birth, this is little more than what you say of your Aesculapius.3 {endquote}
{This important quote from Justin Martyr is not sourced from him directly. Endnote 3, on p. 75, reads "Doane, 411-12". It's from Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions, by T. W. Doane}
In making these comparisons between Christianity and its predecessor Paganism, however, Martyr sinisterly spluttered:
{quote} It having reached the Devil's ears that the prophets had foretold the coming of Christ, the Son of God, he set the heathen Poets to bring forward a great many who should be called the sons of Jove. The Devil laying his scheme in this, to get men to imagine that the true history of Christ was of the same characters the prodigious fables related of the sons of Jove. 4 {endquote}
{Another indirect quotation. Endnote 4, on p. 75, reads "Wheless, FC, 32". The book is Forgery in Christianity, by Joseph Welless}
(7) The Christ Conspiracy - Dating the Gospels (Peter M)
Acharya ignores the bulk of academic scholarship on the dating of the Gospels, even though many such authors take an anti-Christian line, in favour of an esoteric late dasting of all four:
{CC, p. 34} Although they are held up by true believers to be the "inspired" works of the apostles, the canonical gospels were forged at the end of the 2nd century, all four of them probably between 170-180, a date that just happens to correspond with the establishment of the orthodoxy and supremacy of the Roman Church. ...
{p. 37} The Gospel of Mark (175 CE)
After the final destruction of Jerusalem and Judea by the Romans in 135, the Jerusalem church was taken over by non-Jews. ...
{end}
What's wrong with this?
Because leading scholars like S. G. F. Brandon, who take a contrary view, are simply omitted, brushed aside, ignored, as if Acharya has never heard of them.
Brandon's material on the dating of the gospels at least deserves a mention, if only to refute it: jewish-revolt.html.
Further, he is hardly sympathetic to the Christian position.
(8) Gerald Massey disparages the Gospels but endorses the Talmud
Gerald Massey's Lectures
http://members.tripod.com/~pc93/gmlectrs.htm
Electronically typed and edited by Juan Schoch for educational research purposes. Join gnosis284! - Send e-mail to: gnosis284-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. Refs:
http://www.enlightenment-engine.net, http://members.tripod.com/~pc93
pc93@enlightenment-engine.net
Originally published in a private edition c. 1900
FOREWORD
... When Massey lectured in America and Canada, he found himself surrounded with able students. Miss E. Valentia Straiton, author of "The Celestial Ship of the North," and Dr. Alvin Boyd Kuhn, who wrote extensively on comparative religion. Dr. Kuhn acknowledged that in Gerald Massey had been a great inspiration to him. In fact in his posthumous work, "A Rebirth for Christianity," Dr. Kuhn called attention to the great worth of Massey's research on Christian origins ...
Sibyl Ferguson
vii viii THE HISTORICAL JESUS AND M Y T H I C A L C H R I S T. ================ (All necessary references to the original authorities may be found in the Author's "Natural Genesis." ================
... I lectured upon the subject of Jesus many years ago. At that time I did not know how we had been misled, or that the "Christian scheme" (as it is aptly called) in the New Testament is a fraud, founded on a fable in the Old!
I then accepted the Canonical Gospels as containing a veritable human history, and assumed, as others do, that the history proved itself. Finding that Jesus, or Jehoshua Ben-Pandira, was an historical character, known to the Talmud, I made the common mistake of
1 supposing that this proved the personal existence of the Jesus found portrayed in the Canonical Gospels. ...
{this Pandira name is based on the Talmud. So Massey is accepting the Talmud}
The personal existence of Jesus as Jehoshua Ben-Pandira can be established beyond a doubt. One account affirms that, according to a genuine Jewish tradition "that man (who is not to be named) was a disciple of Jehoshua Ben-Perachia." It also says, "He was born in the fourth year of the reign of the Jewish King Alexander Jannæus, notwithstanding the assertions of his followers that he was born in the reign of Herod." That would be more than a century earlier than the date of birth assigned to the Jesus of the Gospels! But it can be further shown that Jehoshua Ben-Pandira may have been born considerably earlier even than the year 102 B.C., although the point is not of much consequence here. Jehoshua, son of Perachia, was a president of the Sanhedrin--the fifth, reckoning from Ezra as the first: one of those who in the line of descent received and transmitted the oral law, as it was said, direct from Sinai. There could not be two of that name. This Ben-Perachia had begun to teach as a Rabbi in the year 154 B.C. We may therefore reckon that he was not born later than 180-170 B.C., and that it could hardly be later than 100 B.C. when he went down into Egypt with his pupil. For it is related that he fled there in consequence of a persecution of the Rabbis, feasibly conjectured to refer to the civil war in which the Pharisees revolted against King Alexander Jannæus, and consequently about 105 B.C. If we put the age of his pupil, Jehoshua Ben-Pandira, at fifteen years, that will give us an approximate date, extracted without pressure, which shows that Jehoshua Ben-Pandira may have been born about the year 120 B.C. But twenty years are a matter of little moment here.
According to the Babylonian Gemara to the Mishna of Tract "Shabbath," this Jehoshua, the son of Pandira and Stada, was stoned to death as a wizard, in the city of Lud, or Lydda, and afterwards crucified by being hanged on a tree, on the eve of the Passover. This is the manner of death assigned to Jesus in the Book of Acts. The Gemara says there exists a tradition that on the rest-day before the Sabbath they crucified Jehoshua, on the rest-day of the Passah (the day before the Passover). The year of his death, however, is not given in that account; but there are reasons for thinking it could not have been much earlier nor later than B.C. 70, because this Jewish King Jannæus reigned from the year 106 to 79 B.C. He was succeeded in the government by his widow Salomè, whom the Greeks called Alexandra, and who reigned for some nine years. Now the traditions, especially of the first "Toledoth Jehoshua," relate that the Queen of Jannæus, and the mother of Hyrcanus, who must therefore be Salomè,
2 in spite of her being called by another name, showed favour to Jehoshua and his teaching; that she was a witness of his wonderful works and powers of healing, and tried to save him from the hands of his sacerdotal enemies, because he was related to her; but that during her reign, which ended in the year 71 B.C., he was put to death. The Jewish writers and Rabbis with whom I have talked always deny the identity of the Talmudic Jehoshua and the Jesus of the Gospels. "This," observes Rabbi Jechiels, "which has been related to Jehoshua Ben-Perachia and his pupil, contains no reference whatever to him whom the Christians honour as God!" Another Rabbi, Salman Zevi, produced ten reasons for concluding that the Jehoshua of the Talmud was not he who was afterwards called Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus of Nazareth (and of the Canonical Gospels) was unknown to Justus, to the Jew of Celsus, and to Josephus, the supposed reference to him by the latter being an undoubted forgery.
The "blasphemous writings of the Jews about Jesus," as Justin Martyr calls them, always refer to Jehoshua Ben-Pandira, and not to the Jesus of the Gospels. It is Ben-Pandira they mean when they say they have another and a truer account of the birth and life, the wonder-working and death of Jehoshua or Jesus. This repudiation is perfectly honest and soundly based. The only Jesus known to the Jews was Jehoshua Ben-Pandira, who had learnt the arts of magic in Egypt, and who was put to death by them as a sorcerer. This was likewise the only Jesus known to Celsus, the writer of the "True Logos," a work which the Christians managed to get rid of bodily, with so many other of the anti-Christian evidences.
Celsus observes that he was not a pure Word, not a true Logos, but a man who had learned the arts of sorcery in Egypt. So, in the Clementines, it is in the character of Ben-Pandira that Jesus is said to rise again as the magician. But here is the conclusive fact: The Jews know nothing of Jesus, the Christ of the Gospels, as an historical character; and when the Christians of the fourth century trace his pedigree, by the hand of Epiphanius, they are forced to derive their Jesus from Pandira! Epiphanius gives the genealogy of the Canonical Jesus in this wise:--
Jacob, called Pandira, Mary=Joseph--Cleopas, Jesus.
This proves that in the fourth century the pedigree of Jesus was traced to Pandira, the father of that Jehoshua who was the pupil of Ben-Perachia, and who becomes one of the magicians in Egypt, and who was crucified as a magician on the eve of the Passover by the Jews, in the time of Queen Alexandra, who had ceased to reign in the year 70 B.C.--the Jesus, therefore, who lived and died more than a century too soon.
Thus, the Jews do not identify Jehoshua Ben-Pandira with the Gospel Jesus, of whom they, his supposed contemporaries, know nothing, but protest against the assumption as an impossibility; whereas the Christians do identify their Jesus as the descendant of Pandira. It was he or nobody; yet he was neither the son of Joseph
3 nor the Virgin Mary, nor was he crucified at Jerusalem. It is not the Jews, then, but the Christians, who fuse two supposed historic characters into one! There being but one history acknowledged or known on either side, it follows that the Jesus of the Gospels is the Jehoshua of the Talmud, or is not at all, as a Person. ...
{end}
(9) Alvin Boyd Kuhn's attacks on Christianity lead to favourable obituary in New York Times
Kuhn's attacks on Christianity apparently earned him this favourable obituary in the leading Jewish-owned newspaper: http://www.catholicleague.org/04press_releases/quarter4/041116_voice.htm.
THE NEW YORK TIMES - SEPTEMBER 15, 1963
ALVIN BOYD KUHN, AUTHOR, 82, DEAD ___
Lecturer Taught Languages, Wrote About Scripture __
Special to the New York Times
ELIZABETH, N.J., Sept. 14
Dr. Alvin Boyd Kuhn, an author, lecturer and former teacher of languages, died today at Morristown Memorial Hospital.
He was 82 years old, and lived at 125 Murray St.
Dr. Kuhn wrote 10 books and 20 booklets on religion, philosophy, psychology, semantics and Bible interpretation. He gave 1,945 lectures in the United States and Canada, discussing among many subjects, the Dead Sea scrolls.
Dr. Kuhn, who received a Doctor of Philosophy degree from Columbia University, taught Latin, Greek, French, German, Spanish and English in high schools in Chambersburg, Harrisburg and elsewhere in Pennsylvania. He studied Hebrew and hieroglyphics for his work in Bible interpretation.
His works include: "The Lost Light," "Shadow of the Third Century," "Who is the King of Glory?," "India's True Voice," "The Lost Key to the Scriptures," "Man's Two Births" and "The Red Sea."
Dr. Kuhn received a B.A. degree from Franklin and Marshall College, where he was for a time secretary to the president. He is survived by a son, Dr. Alfred Kuhn, a professor at the University of Cincinnati; a daughter, Mrs. William Caulwell, wife of a faculty member at Millersville (Pa.) State College, and four grandchildren.
(10) Egyptologists dispute Kuhn-Massey-Harpur (Acharya-like) claims
Comment: Was Christ's life based on pagan myths?
By W. Ward Gasque
http://www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bin/na.cgi?nationalupdates/040623was
WHEN I first met Tom Harpur just over 30 years ago, he was teaching New Testament studies at Toronto's Wycliffe College. Shortly thereafter, he left the ivory tower to become, in due course, Canada's best-known religious journalist. Since then, he has written 17 books, and several thousand articles and columns; he has also achieved high visibility as a radio and television commentator.
To say that his religious views have changed over the years would be a gross understatement. In 1970, he was an evangelically committed Anglican priest, preparing students to faithfully preach and teach the doctrines of Christianity as understood by the classic creeds of the church. Today, his understanding of God, the world, and salvation seems to be that of a theosophist or a neo-gnostic -- though he continues to consider himself a Christian.
The Pagan Christ (Thomas Allen, 2004) is Harpur's story of his discovery of the writings of Alvin Boyd Kuhn (1880-1963), Godfrey Higgins (1771-1834) and Gerald Massey (1828-1907) -- who argued that all of the essential ideas of both Judaism and Christianity came primarily from Egyptian religion. ...
According to Harpur, there is no evidence that Jesus of Nazareth ever lived. Drawing especially on the writings of Kuhn, he claims that virtually all of the details of the life and teachings of Jesus have their counterpart in Egyptian religious ideas; he also maintains that there are strong parallels between Christ's life and Greek, Hindu and Buddhist myths.
Harper does not quote any contemporary Egyptologist or recognized academic authority on world religions, nor does he appeal to any of the standard reference books, such as the magisterial three volume Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt (2001) or any primary sources. Rather, he is entirely dependent on the work of Kuhn, who he describes as "the most erudite, most eloquent, and most convincing . . . of any modern writer on religion I have encountered in a lifetime dedicated to such matters."
Who is Alvin Boyd Kuhn? He, along with Higgins and Massey, is given the title 'Egyptologist,' and is regarded by Harpur as "one of the single greatest geniuses of the twentieth century . . . [towering] above all others of recent memory in intellect and his understanding of the world's religious." Kuhn, he writes, "has more to offer the Church than all the scholars of the Jesus Seminar together. More than John Spong . . . C.S. Lewis . . . Joseph Campbell or Matthew Fox. I remain stunned at the silence with which his writings have been greeted by scholars."
As it turns out, Kuhn was a high school language teacher who earned a PhD from Columbia University by writing a dissertation on Theosophy. A prodigious author and lecturer, he had difficulty finding a publisher for his works; most of them were self-published. His only link with an institution of higher learning was a short stint as the secretary to the president of a small college.
I sent an email to 20 of the world's leading Egyptologists, outlining the following claims put forth by Kuhn (and hence Harpur):
* That the name of Jesus was derived from the Egyptian "Iusa," which means "the coming divine Son who heals or saves".
* That the god Horus is "an Egyptian Christos, or Christ.... He and his mother, Isis, were the forerunners of the Christian Madonna and Child, and together they constituted a leading image in Egyptian religion for millennia prior to the Gospels."
* That Horus also "had a virgin birth, and that in one of his roles, he was 'a fisher of men with twelve followers.'"
* That "the letters KRST appear on Egyptian mummy coffins many centuries BCE, and . . . this word, when the vowels are filled in, is really Karast or Krist, signifying Christ."
* That the doctrine of the incarnation "is in fact the oldest, most universal mythos known to religion. It was current in the Osirian religion in Egypt at least four thousand years BCE."
Only one of the 10 experts who responded to my questions had ever heard of Kuhn, Higgins or Massey! Professor Kenneth A. Kitchen of the University of Liverpool pointed out that not one of these men is mentioned in M. L. Bierbrier's Who Was Who in Egyptology (1995), nor are any of their works listed in Ida B. Pratt's very extensive bibliography on Ancient Egypt (1925/1942). Since he died in 1834, Kitchen noted, "nothing by Higgins could be of any value whatsoever, because decipherment of the Egyptian hieroglyphs was still being finalized, very few texts were translated, and certainly not the vast mass of first-hand religious data."
Another distinguished Egyptologist wrote: "Egyptology has the unenviable distinction of being one of those disciplines that almost anyone can lay claim to, and the unfortunate distinction of being probably the one most beleaguered by false prophets." He goes on to refer to Kuhn's "fringe nonsense."
The responding scholars were unanimous in dismissing the suggested etymologies for Jesus and Christ. Professor Peter F. Dorman, of the University of Chicago, commented: "It is often tempting to suggest simplistic etymologies between Egyptian and Greek (or other languages), but similar sequences of consonants and/or vowels are insufficient to demonstrate any convincing connection."
Ron Leprohan, of the University of Toronto, pointed out that, while "sa" means "son" in ancient Egyptian and "iu" means 'to come," Kuhn/Harpur have the syntax all wrong. In any event, the name 'Iusa' simply does not exist in Egyptian. The name 'Jesus' is a Greek derivation of a Semitic name ("Jeshu'a") borne by many people in the first century.
While the image of the baby Horus with Isis has influenced the Christian iconography of Madonna and Child, this is where the similarity stops. The image of Mary and Jesus is not one of the earliest Christian images, and, at any rate, there is no evidence for the idea that Horus was virgin born. And the New Testament Mary was certainly not a goddess (like Isis).
There is no evidence for the idea that Horus was 'a fisher of men' -- or that his followers, the King's officials, were ever 12 in number. KRST is the word for "burial" ("coffin" is written "KRSW"), but there is no evidence whatsoever to link this with the Greek title "Christos" or the Hebrew "Mashiah".
There is no mention of Osiris in Egyptian texts until about 2350 BC; so Harpur's reference to the origins of Osirian religion is off by more than a millennium and a half. Elsewhere, Harpur refers to "Jesus in Egyptian lore as early as 18,000 BCE"; and he quotes Kuhn as claiming that "the Jesus who stands as the founder of Christianity was at least 10,000 years of age." In fact, the earliest extant writing that we have dates from about 3200 BCE.
Kuhn/Harper's redefinition of "incarnation," and their attempt to root this in Egyptian religion, is regarded as bogus by all the Egyptologists I consulted. According to one: "Only the pharaoh was believed to have a divine aspect, the divine power of kingship, incarnated in the human being currently serving as the king. No other Egyptians ever believed they possessed even 'a little bit of the divine'."
Virtually none of the alleged evidence for the views put forward in The Pagan Christ is documented by reference to original sources. The notes refer mainly to Kuhn, Higgins, Massey or some other long-out-of-date work. Very occasionally, there is a reference to a more contemporary work of scholarship, but this often has little or nothing to do with the point made.
Very few of the books listed in the bibliography are recent. Works that are a century or more old are listed by the date of the most recent edition. The notes abound with errors and omissions. If you look for supporting evidence for a particular point made by the author, it is not there. Many quotations are taken out of context and interpreted in a very different sense from what their author originally meant (especially the early church fathers).
Harpur's book is chock full of questionable claims, such as:
* That prior to the fourth century "it was believed that the coming of the Messiah, or Christ, was taking place in the life of every person at all times."
* That "Christianity began as a cult with almost wholly Pagan origins and motivations in the first century."
* That nearly all of the most creative leaders of the earliest church were pronounced heretics and reviled by "those who had swept in and grabbed control of [church] policies."
* That "the mystical/allegorical method of interpreting the sacred Scripture . . . was replaced by a wholly literal/historical approach" (presumably, in the fourth century).
* That "apart from the four Gospels . . . and the Epistles, there is no hard, historical evidence for Jesus' existence coming out of the first century at all."
* That Albert Schweitzer "concluded that there was no traditional Jesus of Nazareth as a historical person."
* That "Paul's Jesus lacks any human quality for the very reason that, in Paul's understanding, he was not a human person at all."
According to Harpur, Christian scholars have a vested interest in maintaining the myth that there was an actual Jesus who lived in history. First, he insists, there was "the greatest cover-up of all time" at the beginning of the fourth century; and thousands of Christian scholars are now participants in this on-going cover-up.
This perspective misses the fact that, for several generations, there have been professors of religious and biblical studies who are Jewish, Unitarian, members of every Christian denomination -- and many of no professed religious persuasion. And there are no religious tests for chairs in Egyptology. Presumably, the Jewish, Unitarian, secular and many very liberal Christians who happen to be recognized scholars have no axes to grind regarding whether or not Jesus actually lived, or whether most of the ideas found in the Bible stem from Egyptian or other Near Eastern religion.
If one were able to identify all of the non-Christian members of the major learned societies dealing with antiquity, it would be unlikely that you could find more than a handful who believe that Jesus of Nazareth did not walk the dusty roads of Palestine in the first three decades of the Common Era. Evidence for Jesus as a historical personage is incontrovertible.
Rather than appeal to primary scholarship, Tom Harpur has based The Pagan Christ on the work of self-appointed 'scholars' who seek to excavate the literary and archaeological resources of the ancient world the same way an avid crossword puzzle enthusiast mines dictionaries and lists of words.
W. Ward Gasque is a co-founder of Regent College in Vancouver, and a historian of early Christianity.
(11) Militant Atheists stand up for Gay Marriage
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/phil/blphil_eth_gaym.htm
... Sign Up Now for the Agnosticism / Atheism newsletter! ...
Legalizing Gay Marriage
Critiques of the Ethical & Religious Arguments
Exploring: Philosophy > Ethics & Morality
More and more it is looking like legal marriage between members of the same sex may become a reality - but if so, it won't occur without a great deal of difficult social, political, and legal fighting. Those who oppose gay marriage do so with a vehemence: it's not simply that they would rather not see it exist, but rather that they regard it as perhaps the greatest moral and social evil to occur since the legalization of abortion.
However wrong one might find their position, they cannot be dismissed as mere cranks and they cannot be ignored as an irrelevant faction. They are numerous, they are well-funded, they are well-positioned politically, and they are eager to make their case to the public. It is important to understand what their arguments are in order to determine how good their case is and to refute it if their position is unsound.
News and Commentary: Gay Marriage, Gay Rights, and Homophobia
Should same-sex marriage be legal? Should gays and lesbians have the same civil and social rights as everyone else? Should religiious groups continue to discriminate against homosexual? These issues - and gay marriage in particular - are getting more attention lately. Learn about what is going on and what people are saying.
Gay Couples are Unnatural
Although we don't often hear it argued that gay marriage is wrong because gay couples are somehow unnatural, this is a premise which influences other arguments and which lies behind many people's negative opinions about homosexuality in general. For most people, heterosexual relationships are the norm, both in society and in nature. Homosexual relationships are therefore abnormal and unnatural. Perhaps they should be tolerated as a matter of social fairness, but they certainly shouldn't be validated by the state and recognized as a form of marriage.
Marriage is Sacred and a Sacrament
This is rarely offered as an explicit argument against gay marriage, but we must keep in mind that it is perhaps one of the most important arguments for opponents. The idea that marriage is sacred and/or a sacrament underlies much of the vehemence which motivates opponents in a way that the other arguments fail to explain. Indeed, if it weren't for the idea that marriage is sacred, it seems unlikely that the debate would be as huge and rancorous as it is.
The Institution of Marriage Will Be Undermined
The most common claim we hear about why legalizing same-sex marriages is the idea that in doing so, the government will actually be undermining the institution of marriage. For some reason, a marriage between members of the same sex is a self-contradiction, and if their unions are legalized then marriage itself across the country will be harmed. But upon what basis is such an argument made?
Marriage is for Raising Children?
The premise that gay couples don't merit treatment as married couples because of the disconnect between homosexuality and procreation cuts across many arguments against same-sex marriage. It is argued that gay marriage would be "unnatural" because it cannot produce children, the ostensibly natural end of marriage. It is argued that gay marriage would undermine the institution of marriage because it is a legal and moral institution designed to promote and protect procreation and the raising of children. Finally, it is argued that gay marriage would desecrate the godly mandate that heterosexual couples have to mate and propagate the species. Is any of this true, and if so, does it matter?
Male and Female... or not?
And God created them, male and female: those who argue against gay marriage argue that God intended mating between men and women - but what is a 'man' and what is a 'woman'? The argument assumes that there are clear physical and biological boundaries between the two. Usually, that is correct - but there are plenty of people who don't fit clearly into one or the category. Whether we are talking about genetics or physical characteristics, there are people who aren't easily classified as 'men' or 'women.' Whom should they be allowed to marry, if the conservative argument is accepted?
Gay Marriage: What's The Point?
One of the fundamental questions underlying the debate over gay marriage is, quite simply, what the point is for gays to marry. Aside from certain property and legal issues which could, in theory, be solved by other laws, what point are gays trying to make in attempting to get married? Why is it so important to be able to hold up a marriage certificate and say "we're married" instead of simply saying "we're a couple" without a certificate?
Elsewhere on About Marriage Rights for Gays and Lesbians
"One day I hope to have a family. Yes, in the traditional sense of the word- kids, a dog, a big house with a yard and a legally recognized marriage." Read more about what Ramon Johnson, About's Gay Life Guide, has to say on the issue of same-sex marriages.
Lesbian and Gay Marriage
Kathy Belge, About's Lesbian Life Guide writes: "If two people love each other, shouldn't they be allowed the same rights, privileges and responsibilities, no matter their genders? Yet, for heterosexuals, divorce rates are at an all time high. Infidelity in marriage is an epidemic." Read more as she explains the case for and against gay same-sex marriages.
(12) Google Results 1 - 10 of about 35,800 for atheists "gay marriage". (0.04 seconds)
OUTRAGE, BACKLASH AS VATICAN FOCUSES WORLDWIDE CAMPAIGN ON GAY ... ... Atheists charge that in politicizing the issue of gay marriage and pressuring lawmakers, the Holy See is acting as a Foreign Lobbyist. ... www.atheists.org/flash.line/vat14.htm - 30k - Cached - Similar pages
American Atheists ... Eleven states in this election passed referendums outlawing gay marriage. ... We Atheists have always been there to support their causes when it is they who should ... www.atheists.org/ - 19k - Cached - Similar pages [ More results from www.atheists.org ]
Gay Marriage, Civil Union in USA and the world ... says and against the concept of Marriage in our civilization for thousands of years, including Hindus, Buddhists, and even Atheists... Gay Marriage or Civil ... biblia.com/sex/gay.htm - 27k - Cached - Similar pages
Agnosticism / Atheism - Skeptical Inquiry, Freethought, & ... ... of Defense Ends Boy Scouts Sponsorships Because the Boy Scouts were successful in defending their right to discriminate against gays and atheists, others have ... atheism.about.com/ - 32k - 18 Nov 2004 - Cached - Similar pages
Should Atheists Be Allowed to Marry? Polls on Agnosticism & ... Opponents of gay marriage are largely motivated by their firm belief that such unions are displeasing to God and that only ... Should atheists be allowed to marry? ... atheism.about.com/library/polls/blpoll_ath0035.htm - 26k - Cached - Similar pages [ More results from atheism.about.com ]
The Raving Atheist » Archives » November 2004 » Go North ... But yeah, I agree with me_oh_my, the fact that gay marriage was even an issue at all with terrorism ... I wonder what percentage of atheists voted for Bush or Kerry ... ravingatheist.com/archives/2004/11/go_north.php - 59k - 19 Nov 2004 - Cached - Similar pages
Gay Atheists Gay Atheists. Why are there so many gay atheists? ... Does that crisis of religion versus sexuality create a whole class of spiritual gay atheists? ... www.mwillett.org/atheism/gaytheist.htm - 12k - Cached - Similar pages
Gay marriage sanity | The Village Gate ... Just as conservatives oppose gay marriage because of a creation-centered argument (only men ... It occurred to me recently that allowing atheists to marry is much ... www.therightchristians.org/?q=node/view/47 - 34k - Cached - Similar pages
AnandTech - How does gay marriage hurt you ? ... quote: Originally posted by: Ulfwald Gay marriage hurts us all, by making us pay higher health insurance costs in group policies. ... Atheists can get married. ... forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=52& threadid=1433417&STARTPAGE=2&enterthread=y - 101k - Cached - Similar pages
Gay & Black Glossary : gay marriage ... Permitting gay marriage will destroy the institution for straight people, or to use George W. Bush's phrase, "Our nation must defend the sanctity ... Atheists marry ... mindprod.com/ggloss/gaymarriage.html - 30k - 19 Nov 2004 - Cached - Similar pages
(13) Summary - how to engage Acharya
Some people seem to regard Acharya as intimidating or daunting. However the way to deal with her books is not by reading them linearly, from front to back, but to subject her material on individual topics to in-depth assessment, as above. The formidable barrage then seems a little threadbare, undone by its own excesses.
Acharya accused Israel Shamir of behaving in an un-gentlemanly way to her. But her own attacking style might seem un-ladylike to some.
It might seem that I myself am hostile to Acharya. This is not so; as I explained to her, I believe that she is unused to people who partly agree but partly disagree with her. She's used to shouting-matches with Christian fundamentalists, or dealing with Yes-Men and Women; neither of these further anyone's scholarship. To advance, she needs to rewrite her books, tightening the argument, removing the polemics (which offend anyone but the converted), and replacing the authoritative statements "As X says ... ", with claims "X argues that ...".
There is much of value in her books, but they cannot be taken at face value.
Anyone interested in Acharya's theme, but without the ideological bombardment, might read
* Martin A. Larson's book The Story of Christian Origins, originally published as The Religion of the Occident
* Jacquetta Hawkes' book Man and the Sun
* the books of Alain Danielou.
(H) Acharya's claim that Krishna was crucified, and Jesus wasn't
To back up their claims that there was a tradition that Krishna (like Christ) was crucified, and therefore that all such crucifixion stories are fables, the dogmatic atheists rely on books of 1876 and 1882, on a few authors of that vintage cross-quoting each other, based on reports of texts, myths and images garnered from British India.
The texts they refer to have no names; no chapters or verses. The location of the images is not provided.
Given the presence of Christian missionaries, is it not possible that such alleged non-Christian crucifixion images were influenced by Christian iconography? Why can't the atheists produce texts and images from today's India, to back up their claims? Why don't they feel the need to do so? Is this their idea of evidence? of rational debate?
Acharya claims that both Osiris and Jesus were mythical. On the contrary, there were most likely real men underneath the myths built up about each. We can tell the difference between the heroic mythology about Einstein and Mao, and cartoon fantasies about Tarzan and Superman.
Everyone dies; some are murdered, most cruelly. Not everyone has a resurrection, as happened in the mythology of Osiris and Jesus. Yet the stories of their "Passion and Resurrection" are most likely built upon real murders.
The mythology about Jesus, as Acharya says, was in part borrowed from that about Osiris. But that mythology was built around a real man, executed by crucifixion for his defiance of Judaism.
Yet he was not defeated. Despite claims that he never existed - the ultimate insult - the Talmud takes credit for his death. He still irks Judaism - hence the profane artwork Piss Christ, and the New York Times' attempt to stop the showing of Mel Gibson's film about him.
The (Nazi) Stormfront site has joined the "Khrishna the original, Jesus a copy" bandwaggon too (item 8).
Items 5 to 7 are excerpts from some of Acharya's sources.
(1) Acharya's New Age Conglomerate - Acharya replies (2) Kath